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Bill Lins
Guest
Couldn't tell ya- before my time.
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Opening and closing lodge
- Thread starter Papatom
- Start date
I think it is a pride thing Bill. Even though the Grand West did away with it each year at Fort Worth 148/Tarrant 942 we have have our 3 Sr. Officers for the upcoming year certified in all 4. It is not a "Law" but it is "Tradition" now. We even have a small requirement that you must have confered at least one degree. Bottom line is we have raised the bar. Yeah there is no law on it but you can bet if someone doesn't have it done they won't be mentioned for the nomination much less the vote.
Dave in Waco
Premium Member
I think those are excellent "traditions" to have. We are establishing a few of those same traditions in my Lodge.
J
JEbeling
Guest
I think its hard for some people to understand that some brothern will not sit around and wait for a visit from the Grand Inquisitor.. ! The Grand Lodge has a hard time understanding when they pass some of the Great Ideas that some brothern just don't like having the Grand Lodge run everything...? I know of two lodges that just closed.. ! the Brothern meet once a month at a local eatery and have lunch with their family .. ! and heard comments by some of the Grand Inquisitors that THESE PEOPLE don't need to be in masonary.. ? sad day in masonary when a little club of ritualist can set themself up as better that other masons and start "weeding them out.." ..?
Then join the Kiwanians. This Fraternity is not for everyone but we do have to keep the ritual and the teachings alive. I am not saying everyone needs to be "A" certified but we have to pass this on to other generations. I am not for opening the doors for every swinging Richard can get in the door just so we can appease the Appendant Bodies. We are going to close doors because towns are dying themselves. People are moving to metropolitan areas. Heck I know Lodges here that are bringing people in but since their dues are at a minimum there will be lucky to stay open 5 years. There is no easy answer but just because some Lodges refuse to reinvent themselves and upgrade with the times don't mean we need to open the gates. If you want to call "weeding them out" then thats what it is. It is weeding out the ones that don't need to be leaders. It is this mentality that has caused us to be in the shape we are in currently.
J
JEbeling
Guest
Well I think you proved my point... ! If they can't strive for perfection ( like us ) then they should be weeded out.. !
Good point Jebeling. Would we want someone in the frat that has no desire for perfection? That desire is what drives us to be better men so one day we may be perfect or enter that perfect realm. (depending how you believe) This frat makes good men better mostly by the atmosphere these better men can create for the good men to safely and quickly get better. If we flood the frat with good men or allow the good men in the frat to stay who are complacent with the way things are on any level and have no desire to achieve that perfect spiritual building then the atmosphere becomes that as well, and these good men predominantly stay good men and there is rare chance for labor on our spiritual temple. The word perfect ritual is certainly not the end all be all but that desire to make it and everything else around us better is the quintessential quality of a mason. No matter how good a man is if he has no desire to get better (and as a mason that includes the ritual) then he will constantly feel misunderstood in Freemasonry.
Dave in Waco
Premium Member
That's not what he said. He's saying that we don't need to lower our standards just to bring in more people. Again, it goes back to Res #1 cheapening Masonary. I will not be a party of robbing new Masons of being able to share in the same experiences that we have. Why is it you want to take that away from them so bad? Our membership isn't hurting so bad that we have to lower our standards for our membership to grow.
I will not be party in the making of Masonary Lite. If you think that's where the future of Masonary lies, that perhaps you should get to know the brothers that are up and coming better. The brothers that are on the move do not want the diluting of the Craft, we want to enrich it. We do not want the easy path. Perhaps you've completely missed all the discussion on improving and enhancing Masonic education? That desire has been almost universal here. Making the memory work runs complete counter to that growing movement inside the lodges. And yes, that movement has already moved far beyond the discussions on here. It was a feeling I heard expressed at the JW Retreat and heard other talk about from other retreats.
So my vote at the Grand Communication will be a resounding "NO" on Res #1 and the cheapening of Masonary.
J
JEbeling
Guest
Those are your words not mine... ! your idea of standards have nothing to do with masonary.. ! it has only to do with the memory work.. ! none of the other qualification that recomand a man to be made a mason count... ! only one thing matters.. ! if he can remember the 2 and 3 sectons of the EA... ! in your words masonary is cheap in all other Grand Lodges...? they should not even be allowed to visit.. ! they are just low lifes because they don't learn all the memory work... ! in fact if we lerned all the work in the monoter we could even have better masons...?
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Bill Lins
Guest
In order to conform to Art. 276a we have the prospective officers pro tem in the offices they seek at the stated meeting one month prior to election & demonstrate their proficiency in the work. While perfection is not required, I'm sure the Brethren take their performance into account when making their decisions.
While I make no claim that ritual is the most important part of Masonry, I believe that not only the lessons taught in the material, but the rigor of learning it, are as important as any other part. And yes, we all SHOULD strive for perfection, even though we all know we will never attain it.
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Bill Lins
Guest
I've never heard of any Lodge which demised due to a lack of proficiency in the ritual. Their lack of proficiency was merely a symptom of the problems that caused their demise.
Dave in Waco
Premium Member
Brother Papa, I think that's a great accomplishment for any lodge!!
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Bill Lins
Guest
That is noteworthy!
Dave in Waco
Premium Member
Actually those are your own words, because that is not what I said. You seem to "paraphrase" by taking opinions out of context and applying them in a manner that was not present or alluded to in order to suit your own opinion. I would appreciate it if in the future you didn't make up opinions for me, akin to me saying that because you support Res. #1 by extention you are against all education. I don't know what axe you have to grind against the Committee of Work, but I do not wish to be drug into your personal issues.
J
JEbeling
Guest
This is not the first time this was debated... ! when Grand Master Jack Kelly came into office he ordered that only the first section of the EA's had to be turn in... ! the other sections were optional... ! and the same whinnnnnng about how important it was came from all the ritualist... ! We are in a more serious time now then we were then with 30%-35% of the men we have come in as EA's don't make it to the fellowcrafts degree...? is it all because of the work.. NO.. ! is some it because of the amount of the work... YES.. ! and as far as having an axe to grind with the committee on hope and change .. the answer is .. YES.. ! but thats another debate.. ! The number of Texas masons have gone from 265,000+/- to somewhere in the 140,000+/-....? There is great preasure on the Scottish Rite and Shrine to take in non-masons.. ? and with millions of dollars in hospital overhead.. ! Great works for all children with both hospitals.. ! and we debate how important those two sections are...? I think we should do everything we can to up our membership in Texas.. ! and your right it is personal.. ! its about the furture of masonary in Texas.. ! and not turning Masonary from what it has been into a little click of ritualist who don't even what someone to be master of a lodge unless they can pass the Grand Inquisitor.. ! and the arrogance to believe that the more memory work produces better masons..? because memory work is their thing.. ?
Dave in Waco
Premium Member
So the root of it all is numbers. I will point out that our history shows that in Texas we have done some of our best work when we were a small group. I would also point out that Masonry follows economic trends as well, yet in the last few years we have seen increases in the number of new Masons. To put it in a strictly numbers sense, right now the group that swelled our ranks to record levels 50 years ago are accounting for the greatest number of losses among our members. Not to be crasp, but when the largest demographic comes to the end of its run, it's natural that our numbers go down.
The thing to remember, is that they 40 and under crowd is the demographic that is picking up steam, and they are the ones that don't want Masonary Lite. They want the full experience. So if numbers are your concern, then marketing strategy would dictate that you market to your target demographic, and that demographic wants the work. You've heard too many of them speak about that on here to even begin to legitimately deny that. If Scottish Rite and Shriners are so concerned with getting their numbers up, then I would suggest they become more active in their blue lodges to get their numbers up first. This is not so different then the Cola Wars from the 80's. Coke changed their famous formula to be more like Pepsi all the while they had been marketing to the wrong people. Pepsi was marketing to the young crowd while Coke was marketing to the people they already had. You lessen the work to market to the people we already have, just like Coke, you blinked, and we will continue to lose good men by not marketing to them.
I suggest you put aside your differences with the Committee on Work and open your mind to reason and the facts. Look at the facts, lodges with active members aren't the ones that lessen the work, they are the ones enrich the Craft and educate their members. Those aren't the little clicks that you suggests, they are the future of Masonary regardless of if you like it or not, because they are the part of Masonary that is growing. You see them as a little click because these are the people just now starting to show up at GL, but it is also the group that grows larger every year. And for your information, this "little click" as you call it, isn't worried about the "Grand Inquisitor" because what they strive in themselves is beyond what the "Grand Inquisitor" looks to pass. They hold themselves to a higher standard. They compete with themselves and help each other to be better ritualist, better morally, better men, and above all better Masons. And they will not let you take those things from them because you can't or won't get along with the C.O.W.
If Masonary dies, it will be because people like you JEbeling made it irrelievent by making it so easy. Open your eyes and look what the young brothers are wanting, because it's not to be coddled and made weaker. Look at the numbers, overall in the state a third don't make it from EA to FC, but in the Lodges of the people on here who have spoken out against lessening the work are in Lodges +90% success rates. We are the ones having the success, I wise man would listen to the people who are having success.
The thing to remember, is that they 40 and under crowd is the demographic that is picking up steam, and they are the ones that don't want Masonary Lite. They want the full experience. So if numbers are your concern, then marketing strategy would dictate that you market to your target demographic, and that demographic wants the work. You've heard too many of them speak about that on here to even begin to legitimately deny that. If Scottish Rite and Shriners are so concerned with getting their numbers up, then I would suggest they become more active in their blue lodges to get their numbers up first. This is not so different then the Cola Wars from the 80's. Coke changed their famous formula to be more like Pepsi all the while they had been marketing to the wrong people. Pepsi was marketing to the young crowd while Coke was marketing to the people they already had. You lessen the work to market to the people we already have, just like Coke, you blinked, and we will continue to lose good men by not marketing to them.
I suggest you put aside your differences with the Committee on Work and open your mind to reason and the facts. Look at the facts, lodges with active members aren't the ones that lessen the work, they are the ones enrich the Craft and educate their members. Those aren't the little clicks that you suggests, they are the future of Masonary regardless of if you like it or not, because they are the part of Masonary that is growing. You see them as a little click because these are the people just now starting to show up at GL, but it is also the group that grows larger every year. And for your information, this "little click" as you call it, isn't worried about the "Grand Inquisitor" because what they strive in themselves is beyond what the "Grand Inquisitor" looks to pass. They hold themselves to a higher standard. They compete with themselves and help each other to be better ritualist, better morally, better men, and above all better Masons. And they will not let you take those things from them because you can't or won't get along with the C.O.W.
If Masonary dies, it will be because people like you JEbeling made it irrelievent by making it so easy. Open your eyes and look what the young brothers are wanting, because it's not to be coddled and made weaker. Look at the numbers, overall in the state a third don't make it from EA to FC, but in the Lodges of the people on here who have spoken out against lessening the work are in Lodges +90% success rates. We are the ones having the success, I wise man would listen to the people who are having success.
Okay Boyz.
The fact is that "we" may have to agree to disagree on this issue. There is no sense to get too personal in our statements as is the key to all debates. The minute a Debate turns personal it becomes an Argument. IMO, from this point on everyone involved should present facts and facts only. Try not to use I, You, We and other more personal discriptions.
I have read quite a few posts that I personally feel were written in anger, frustration, and spite. This type of posting is disruptive to the Harmony and Balance we Brothers are responsible for upkeeping. Remember the lesson of the Compasses, and the Level. So we ever meet act and part.
So Mote it Be!
The fact is that "we" may have to agree to disagree on this issue. There is no sense to get too personal in our statements as is the key to all debates. The minute a Debate turns personal it becomes an Argument. IMO, from this point on everyone involved should present facts and facts only. Try not to use I, You, We and other more personal discriptions.
I have read quite a few posts that I personally feel were written in anger, frustration, and spite. This type of posting is disruptive to the Harmony and Balance we Brothers are responsible for upkeeping. Remember the lesson of the Compasses, and the Level. So we ever meet act and part.
So Mote it Be!